Interesting bazi (Chinese profiling) discussion 2

A few years ago, while we were attending some talks, we met a consultant who mentioned that some of our charts are strong but not so strong; weak but not so weak. Even though that sounds rather absurd, the few of us didn’t know better then. More often than not, this is the result of a confusion of the numerous concepts of Chinese metaphysics.

An element may be born in season and yet isn’t strong. This is what the classics mentioned; we didn’t invent it. So may think that the Day pillar is a solid pillar and that Chen is storage of water. Therefore, this is a strong chart.

One cannot conclude that the chart is weak/strong just based on the Day Master alone. It has to be based on formation (stems) and location (branches). We are also not fans of the points system; this is a contemporary invention and somewhat arbitrary especially when it comes to complicated issues like the earth months or rooting (sub qi or main qi) etc. How to decide between a 0.5 point or 1 or 2 points in those cases. There is also the issue of the phases of qi. Even though Chen is called the storage of water, Ren water is dead in Chen phase; the reference point is Ren so we cannot say water is strong in Chen even though technically Chen is storage of water.

Besides, it is the year pillar; can we say 1976 is a cold year just because of the Chen which has water. In the same vein, can we say that a zi day is cold? This doesn’t make sense right? Hence, the strength of the natal chart has to be in accordance with the above. One can check out Master Jo Ching’s wonderful sharing on bazi SOP when he talked about season, formation and location…It’s on Youtube the last we checked.

Therefore, in this case, the Day Master which needs to see roots is definitely in season and strong. However, the chart is a weak chart. Stems only have metal supporting while branches have day support. Wei and Chen in this case, are read as earth elements. You can say that this chart has very strong water but it is still a weak chart. The favourable elements for a weak natal chart are elements that support but this is already a chart that has a lot of water. For the strong Day master (self), you actually need to weaken it.

This creates a rather complicated situation. What is favourable to the person may not result in his success. This is something we can verify right? Sometimes in life, we are in a comfortable and loving environment but we are not very successful or achieved anything. This describes the chart perfectly. Depending on what the client wants, be it a comfortable environment or a successful career, the practitioner can then make his/her recommendation accordingly. And no, we don’t think adding water will not kill this person; yes it isn’t the best thing for him. It just makes him well…think too much; too comfortable in his environment and moody amongst other things especially when there is already a lot of water. In addition, the RW star to us shouldn’t be the basis of our recommendations. While, being in some industries may result in greater competition, what is life without some competition? In this case, wood may be useful (to arbitrate between the strong water self and give rise to fire) even though this isn’t one of the favourable elements for a weak natal chart.

Some practitioners jump too quickly to conclusions without considering the client’s circumstances and needs just by basing it on the Useful God and the Day master. A useful God can also be negative and favourable elements to the natal chart (as in this case) can be negative. A tricky situation indeed but that’s life and that’s why ancient wisdom is so interesting…Life isn’t simple or easy right. The complexity is the reason why practitioners should be treated as consultants performing an advisory function. And are they always correct? Which market analyst is always correct? But that’s a story for another day. This is an academic exercise and we have no wish to engage in debates or arguments in forums or other practitioners. Do consult a qualified consultant or a proper analysis.


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May the positive energy be with you.